This is a unique opportunity to communicate with the STEM professionals who work at the Natick Labs. Please post any questions/comments you have about what you saw on the field trip. For example, a question I might ask is: How do they get people to test food like we did. Or, I might make a comment like: I appreciate the time Donna Bulger spent planning the field trip for us, and I think it would be a good field trip for next year.
There are four people with whom you can direct questions/comments: Donna Bulger, Zack, Katelyn D'allesandro (the lady who explained the MRE's) and Jennifer Rourke (the lady who explained the computer software).
To Ms. D'allesandro: how much time does the average tester (for the memory test of the map) take to get through the simulated village with and without the glasses that show the map? Does it take longer to get through the village with the glasses?
ReplyDeleteZack, what is the average rating that the public gives for the wheat snack bread and the apple sauce?
ReplyDeleteMs.D'allesandro: I know you tested the MRE's at the labs but were they actually made their or is their another factory some were else that produces them? My second question is is there any special packaging involved with the making of the MRE's?
ReplyDeletehow did you come up with designing certain packaging in the mre's.
ReplyDeleteJennifer Rourke: Why do soldiers use the eye monitor, and why can it see darker eyes better than lighter eyes?
ReplyDeleteHow does the eye scanner exactly know where your eyes are? Is there like a scanner which kind of detects where your eyes go, or is the computer sense it when it is looked at?
ReplyDeleteJennifer, my dad works with computer software, and he said that companies use the same eye detector to see where people look on commercials. Do you ever do the same thing?
ReplyDeleteCharissa, Paul, Tomasso, John, Michael, Alex and Anthony..these are all really great questions. Just like you I am looking forward to seeing the answers to your questions. Inquiring minds like yours make great scientists!
ReplyDeleteMs.D'alliesandro: What do the soliders do if they do eat something that thier not suppose to eat, [do they not go on battle station??]
ReplyDeleteMs. D'allesandro,
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned that people with diabetes do not serve in the military. Is this limitation to the battle field? In other words, can people with diabetes serve in different ways? For instance, can they serve as nurses or, perhaps, mechanics?
I directed this question to you because I thought the limitation might be based upon MRE's since people with diabetes need access to food at all times, which isn't always possible when fighting in the fields.
Tommaso, I started to think about your question about special packaging for the MRE. I went into my own cabinets, refrigerator and freezer and found over 10 different types of packaging material. I started to analyze why items were all packaged so differently. My favorite pepperidge farms cookies come in a plastic cradle - they never break which I am very happy about. It made me think - I will do some research and send you some links on packaging! In the meantime I encourage you all to check out your cabinets, refrigerators and freezers and think about why things are packaged differently. I look forward to hearing from you!
ReplyDeleteMichael, thanks for your question! We do not have soldiers use the eye tracking device in the field, or in their day to day activities, but rather we have them use it in experiments so we can tell exactly where they are looking, for how long, where they looked next etc. The eye tracker is able to better pick up on colored eyes actually, I think at the time you guys were in I told you the tracker was having a hard time picking up a reading from our volunteer and I think that was because it was crowded in our room and the tracker is very sophistcated and could have been getting confused, scanning other individuals that were close as well. At the time I theorized that the tracker was simply having a hard time finding his pupil because his iris (the colored part of the eye) was so light. Although in my practice with the machine since you guys have been here, it usually responds better to colored eyes because it is able to pick out the pupil better. To answer the question, in my recent practice I beleive the tracker to get better faster readings from people who have colored eyes (blue, green) than people have darker eyes.
ReplyDeleteHi Alex Wang, another good question! The eye tracker knows exactly where your eyes are because the scanner (that was the black bar right beneath the monitor on the table- it looked the side of a black notebook) when a subject is in the proper scope can pick up on the darkness of the pupil (the black center of your eye) and montior your pupil. The scanner sees exactly where your pupil looks, for how long, and the track it followed.
ReplyDeleteHi Anthony, that is very interesting! We have not used the eye tracker to look at commercials or commercial products for that matter, but I am sure you would get some interesting results. I would like to use the eye tracker in the near future showing subjects pictures of what a new design army helmet would look like and then we would employ the same tactics as advertising people would with commercials; if the subjects avoid looking at the new helmet, it makes them uncomfortble, and if they can look at the helmet they are comfortable looking at it. That way we will know if the new design is intimidating to people.
ReplyDeletePaul, thanks for the question.
ReplyDeleteAs we discussed on your visit to NSRDEC, some of our foods are rated by 3 unique groups: Soldiers, Technical Panelists, and Consumer Panelists.
When you say 'public', the group that best fits this category are the Consumer Panelists. These are untrained (with regards to sensory taste testing) civilians who simply taste the food and rate it on a scale, much like you and your fellow students did.
On a recent Consumer Panel, Wheat Snack Bread ratings averaged between 22.40 and 28.33 on the LAM scale. This translates to right in between 'Like Slightly' and 'Like Moderately'. All things considered, you could consider that as 'kinda good' or 'pretty good'. Applesauce recieved ratings between 41.23 and 46.53 on the LAM scale. This translates to right in between 'Like Moderately' and 'Like Very Much'. For taste test panels, this is a rather high rating.
--
Zack
Hi Anthony, What an interesting idea, I can really understand why advertising companies are using eye trackers to see where exactly people are focusing on in their commercials. We use that same way of thinking to see where exactly subjects are looking, the best example I can think of would be the camoflage study we are doing where we have men wearing different types of camoflage somewhat hiding in different types of terrain and we like to see if the subject can actually spot them or if their eyes are randomly scanning.
ReplyDeleteSorry guys for the two responses to anthony, after I posted the last comment I came back to check and it had not posted, so I reposted with a different thought!
ReplyDeleteI am so impressed with the questions being asked by Team 6-4! Keep 'em coming....and, thank you to Donna, Zack and Jennifer for your great responses.
ReplyDeleteABOUT PACKAGING.......I thought you would all be interested to know that there is actually a school of packaging at Michigan State University. The School of Packaging supports the industry of packaging by educating students who are interested in employment in the industry, by conducting research to solve packaging problems and develop new technology which can be used by the industry. Other schools and univerisities also study packaging. We have recruited many of our packaging specialists from Michigan!
ReplyDeleteoh, whoops, my comment is really for Ms. Rourke. here's the question again:
ReplyDeletehow much time does the average tester (for the memory test of the map) take to get through the simulated village with and without the glasses that show the map? Does it take longer to get through the village with the glasses?
Katelyn D'allesandro: How often do you need to change the meals to fit what soilders like? Are there any special people who test the food of the MRE before the soilders test it? And lastly, what is the majority of the soilders favorite food in the MRE?
ReplyDeleteI really liked the computer room.
ReplyDeletedid you guys make the eye tracker becauase that was super cool! I also thought the eye piece was cool to.
ReplyDeleteJenifer Rourke:
ReplyDeleteDo the soldiers enjoy testing the eye-tracker and the map memorization simulation? How long have you been working for the Natick Labs?
Zack:
Were you in the army? Did you know about the Natick Labs, and what they do when you were my age? If so, is that what got you interested in working for the Natick Labs?
Dear Ms. Rourke,
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if your research has uncovered eyes that are too dark for the eye tracker - just as it has uncovered eyes that are too light? I am asking because I have very dark brown eyes, almost the same color as my pupils. My prediction is that some eyes might be too dark. Am I correct?
Jennifer Rourke:
ReplyDeleteHow does the eye piece get the picture from the computer when they are in a middle of a battle and could that eye piece distract the soldiers when they are on they field.
Donna Bulger: Thank you for answering my question and i have another question on packaging. Is there any camouflage need to make the packages so the enemies can not spot them?
ReplyDeleteKatelyn D'allesandro: Where do must of the MRE's packaging come from?
ReplyDeleteKatelyn D'allesandro: Where do most of the MRE's packaging come from?
ReplyDeleteJennifer Rourke: If a bullet hit the glasses or monitor on the field, would the picture be harmed? If they are how would you replace them when they are in a foreign country? Did you design them?
ReplyDeleteZack: How did you come up with the words on the scale? Is the apple sauce from an MRE or UGR? If its from an MRE how do you package it?
What is the item that has the lowest rating that you tested? How low was it?
Donna Bulger: Thank you so much for making the trip happen! I had so much fun and I learned a lot.
Katelyn, what food can go the longest without going bad?
ReplyDeleteDonna Bulger, do the soldiers have any terms that they use other than Uah?
ReplyDelete(By the way, my mom went to U of M)
Hi Charissa, typically it takes subjects about 45 minutes to go through the virtual reality testing. We have not started testing with the glasses yet, hopefully by next week we will and I can tell you guys how it went!
ReplyDeleteHi Matthew, no we did not make the eye tracker or any of its software, we ordered it from a company that manufactures them, I agree the eye tracker is pretty cool!
ReplyDeleteHi everyone - these are such great questions you have about MREs and the different aspects that go into making them safe and healthy for Warfighters on the battlefield! For those of you who've asked about packaging:
ReplyDeleteThe packaging of each individual item included in an MRE is actually about 90% of what keeps the food inside safe, so clearly, the research our materials engineers do on new packaging materials is very important. Currently, all of the MRE entrees are sealed into an air-tight "quad-laminate" pouch. This means that the pouch material has four different layers, which are: polyester, nylon, foil, and polyolefin. All of these layers work together to protect the food inside from microbes, bacteria, chemicals, water, and physical deterioration. As I mentioned during the presentation, the food is cooked directly inside these packages at extremely high heat, which kills any bacteria or microbes that might have gotten in when the food was first packaged inside. Once these high heat cooking process is done, NOTHING can grow inside the pouches, keeping the food safe to eat for a minimum of 3 years. Someday, we hope to be able to remove the foil part of this material, which would allow us to cook the food using microwaves, instead of the high heat. If any of you have ever tried (or made the mistake!) of cooking something in your microwave with tinfoil, you know that sparks fly and a fire can start! Using microwaves to cook the food would allow us to put even more different types of items into MREs and make the food taste even better, while STILL being completely safe for 3 years!
As for camouflage ("camo") packaging - we don't specifically require camouflage in the way that Warfighters wear camo, like the digital pattern. However, as you can tell by the brown pouches, the color is definitely a very muted, neutral color that can blend easily with most environments. It really wouldn't ever make sense to make an MRE bright electric yellow right?! For snowy, cold environments, we have what we call a "Meal Cold Weather" and that packaging is actually completely white with dark brown lettering, which helps it blend into snow much better than the brown packaging would. Also, remember the flameless ration heater? One of the reasons Warfighters can use that item is because it doesnt use fire or smoke, which could give away their locations. So, having it be "flameless" not only keeps them safe from fire hazards, but it keeps them safe from the enemy as well.
Hi Tommasso,
ReplyDeleteThat is a great question about where MREs are manufactured. The answer is actually three different places. What happens in the "life" of developing an MRE is that we here at Natick do all of the RESEARCH and DEVELOPMENT in figuring out what new items we can put into MREs. Once we decide on which items are going to get produced, we work with three different "ration producers" or "manufacturers". These three are: 1.) Sopacko in South Carolina, Wornick in Cincinatti Ohio, and Ameriqual in Evansville, Indiana. Each one of these companies is required to work with us to make sure that the products they are making and putting in the actual packaging meet all of our "requirements," because in the end, if each of these companies is going to make a sloppy joe entree, for example, they need to taste, look, feel, and smell exactly the same so that the product is consistent when the Warfighter gets it in the field.
Hi Monica C.,
ReplyDeleteWe do field testing, like you learned about, with Warfighters every single year. Then, we change the MRE menus according to what THEY tell US. Some years, the data we collect from them might tell us that they don't like 12 of the 24 menus, so we'll need to to a lot of replacing and mixing around of menus. Other years, the data might tell us that they like most of the menus as they already are and just want us to put some new desserts in there. It really is all up to the Warfighters. But we always do the testing every year, no matter what. What we put in those meal bags doesn't mean much if the Warfighters don't want to eat it!
Hi Anthony,
ReplyDeleteThere is actually not a specific food that goes longer than any other without going bad. The reason for this is that we have to abide by military requirements that tell us that each and every item that is in an MRE must have a MINIMUM shelf life (the length of time before "going bad") of 3 years at 80 degree farenheit.
Sometimes though, there are certain items that taste better than others when they are older than 3 years. I know sometimes Warfighters on their own personal time and civilians get their hands on MREs that are much older than 3 years and have "experimented" with tasting some of the items. In our office, we actually tried a beef stew that was 11 years old! It didn't taste too great, but it was still safe and helthy to eat :)
Hi Kayla T.,
ReplyDeleteIf someone has diabetes, they cannot enlist at all to serve in any of the four military services. I am not sure of every single reason behind this, since those rules are part of the the medical command, but as for the food part, there is just not a specific, cost efficient, or safe way that we could make sure a diabetic person could have access to the types of food they need at all times.
However, that does not mean a diabetic person could not serve his or hear country in many other ways! Take us here at Natick for example - most of us are not "in" the Army but we "work for" the Army and call ourselves Army Civilians. We are all very proud of the work we do in support of our Armed Forces, and so are the many many other people all over the country who work for the DoD and all four military services as civilians.
Hi Brian Y.- I do beleive the soldiers and subjects alike enjoy both of those forms of testing. They do have to participate or not, so when a subject does participate I beleive it is due to an interest in the subject. I have been working at Natick Labs for 4 years.
ReplyDeleteHi Marissa,
ReplyDeleteThere is actually nothing that a Warfighter is "not supposed to eat." Unit Commanders are responsible for ordering rations/meals through the Military logistics chain to sustain their Warfighters. While they usually order Operational Rations, like the MREs you saw during your tour here, they can also order speciality food from vendors in the countries in which they're located. Also, each individual Warfighter is allowed to use his or her own money to purchase whatever type of food they want, depending on where they are and what's avaialble. If they are located on an Army base, then there is a "post exchange" (like a mini mart sort of) where they can buy many of the same types of food and drinks as you and I would buy at the grocery store - sandwiches, chips, pasta, juice, soda, fruit, etc. Sometimes, they can even go out to local markets and buy what the locals eat. However, they are trained to be smart, use their heads and us common sense. There are places in the world where certain foods and water are not safe to eat, so in those situations, Warfighters shouldn't purchase food from local markets.
Hi Kayla T. I think you are right with your prediction! I do think it is possible that someone's eyes may just be too dark for the tracker to pick up, I think it might be possible to tinker with the calibrations on it a bit, but I do think you are right, good hypothesis!
ReplyDeleteTommasso Auerbach- Another great question. When the soldiers are in the field using the display they would be wearing a garment like or similar to the black vest that was hanging up, not sure if you guys saw it, in the vest is a power supply that enables their leader to send the messages to them and them to receive messages. I feel that overall the display is helpful, but can be also distracting, that is a study that I hope to be starting with the next week or so, I will be very interested to see where it leads.
ReplyDeleteHi all -
ReplyDeleteI'm sure many of you are wondering what some of the MRE "favorites" are: Well, since we'll never get to talk to every single Soldier, Marine, Airman, or Sailor, we don't have specific data on what they all like, but what I can tell you is that we hear all the time that the spaghetti with meat sauce and the meatballs in marinara are VERY well liked. Most people usually like pasta/Italian type foods, since those are very much staples of the Americna diet as well. As a matter of fact, since the early 1980s when MRE were first consumed, the spaghetti with meat sauce is the ONLY entree that has never been removed from the MRE - Warfighters like it too much!
Other items we hear about all the time are the pound cakes, which are kind of like a Little Debbie packaged cake you'd get from the grocery store. We have lemon poppyseed, almond, vanilla, and spiced pound cakes. I've actually tried them all, and my favorite is the vanilla :)
Oh, and of course, Warfighters LOVE when they get an MRE that has M&Ms or Skittles in it :)
I was wondering what some of the problems are that you face while working on projects might be and how would you ussually solve the problems you face. I was also wondering what some of the projects you are working on now might be.
ReplyDeleteHow often do the subjects see the camoflague when you test them and how often do they look right at it and not notice it?
ReplyDeleteMs. D'Alessandro,
ReplyDeleteDuring combat, are there any rations for food, because you can't get it there or if they can;t get to it?
Also,
Have you ever heard of the food getting stolen by the enemy, and if you have how did they get it?
I was wondering if some of the scientists discover it is hard at the first try to make succesfull equipment, and aproxamitly, how long does it take?
ReplyDeleteThanks for responding Jenifer! If I think of any more questions I will send them to you.
ReplyDeleteAnthony - - We talked about the term Hooah when you came for a visit. There are many terms that Soldiers use, like zero dark thirty which means very early in the morning. As a civilian I don't know all the terms. I do enjoy listening to "cadence" when they are running. Cadence is a "call and respond song" and usually done while running or marching. They can be fun to listen to.
ReplyDeleteThanks to you and your classmates for being great blogging partners!
Kayla - You are welcome! We all really enjoyed your group. Blogging with all of you has been really fun. I had never blogged before - so thank you all for the opportunity!
ReplyDeleteHow do you make all the equiptment that you use. Has the Natick Labs ever done a field trip before?
ReplyDeletei kinda forget who sord-of "ran" the MRE's, but how many other people do you get to taste them? is it only the soldiers? or do you get a taste of them too? and my other question is, how much other types of food in MRE's do you have? do you make them so that they dont have a lot of sugar? or do they come with amounts of sugar or calories?
ReplyDeletethanks again for the trip!!
Jennifer Rourke--
ReplyDeleteDoes the eye tracker work for all eyes? because when we tested it, it didnt work for the blue eyes. so does that mean that only people with dark eyes can use it?
thanks again!!
anybody i guess can answer this....does it matter if the MRE's get spotted, because maybe they aren't that expensive? or maybe they are...but do you make special packaging to protect them?
ReplyDeleteJennifer Rourke, do you have any backgrounds like cites or towns with moving people, so the person using the eye tracker has to find a certain person in a crowd?
ReplyDeleteDear Ms. Rourke,
ReplyDeleteThank you for answering my question. I enjoyed learning more about the eye tracker. It serves an important role. Designing clothes that keep the men and women who serve protected and safe is important. How often does the military change the design of their uniforms? I know camouflage is important, but I'm wondering if there are any other reasons behind such changes. Perhaps the weather.
Ms. D'Allesandro,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your quick response to my question. I'm glad to hear about other opportunities to serve our country. I also enjoyed learning more about the MREs. I'm not surprised to hear that pasta and meatballs are a favorite with the men and women who serve. I love pasta too.
I was wondering if you know how the Girl Scout cookies are delivered to the men and women in the military. My troop donated over 1,000 boxes and I was wondering if they are sent the same way the MREs are. If so, are the cookies "repackaged" into smaller amounts so that they are easier to carry?
When we were doing the food testing, how did the people serving us the bread and apple sauce know which food we were going to eat next? Or do they just guess?
ReplyDeleteHow do you exactly keep the MRE's fresh? Do you use some kind of preservative? Or do you package it in a special way?
ReplyDeleteBrian Y,
ReplyDeleteI was not in the Army, but my father was. That was how I had first heard about the LABS.
When I started my college career, I knew I was going to study Psychology. But at the time I was more interested in the clinical side, counseling and the like. Half way through college and after two years of jobs in clinical psychology, I was starting to shift gears and consider the research side of psychology. This is when I started to consider a job at the Natick Army LABS.
I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but I did know that the LABS were rich with opportunity in a very wide range of sciences. I began working part time as a student in my junior year in sensory/consumer psychology at the LABS and found it to be completely rewarding--something I could see myself doing as a career.
To Jennifer Rourke (the lady who explained the computer software): I thought that the monitor that tracked where your eyes went on the screen really facinated me and the glasses with the mini computer screen was really cool. Also I have a question about how those mini computer screens are made? and how do you get information onto it?
ReplyDeleteI noticed in the tents there were mini models of helicopters that really interested me did you make those and did you show the soldiors how everything in the lab works.
ReplyDeleteHow did you become interested in a job at the natick labs?
ReplyDeletejennifer rourke--did you ever think that maybe the eye tracker with the little screen might distract the soldiers? because when i had it on me, i was very distracted by the pictures.
ReplyDeleteanybody can answer this-- what if you are allergic to something in the MRE's and you didnt know it, and you got an allergic reaction...what would you do??
ReplyDeleteKatelyn D'allesandro: How long does the food have until it goes bad if it does goes bad?
ReplyDeleteJennifer Rourke: I don't understand why you have an eye tracked, couldn't you trust the soldiers and hope for the best. My second question is to Katelyn D'allesandro: are the MRE's bad for you because all the food is packaged and you wouldn't have anything fresh? Wouldn't that be a problem. Another question i have to Katelyn D'allesandro: is that wouldn't the soldiers think that it is sort of disgusting eating food that is 1 year old. how do you convice them that it is okay!?
ReplyDeleteAlso thank you so much. I really injoyed this field trip. i think we should do it every year:).
Are certain MRE's more packaged than others? Why
ReplyDeleteKate,
ReplyDeleteDifferent Soldiers have different specialities. Some are combat medics. These Soldier Medics would handle an allergic reaction in the field if a Soldier were to have a reaction to a food item from an MRE.
Liza and everyone else,
ReplyDeleteYou might like to know that one of the biggest challenges we have been asked to work on is getting pizza in the hands of Warfighters! The problem for us in getting pizza into an MRE is that the main items that make up pizza - bread, tomatoes, and cheese - are very hard to keep safe for 3 years when they are all combined together. The cheese is especially hard because it has very high "water activity" which basically means that there is a lot of water in the cheese that will spread to other parts of the pizza (the dough for example) and make it mushy and it will go bad.
Someday we hope to crack the case! For now, the closest thing we've figured out is a pepperoni pocket sandwhich that stays fresh for 2 years. It's part of a ration we call the "First Strike Ration." The sandwhich looks kind of like a hot pocket, but it doesn't need to be heated up to taste good!
Hi Miranda,
ReplyDeleteTypicall it is Soldiers or Marines on the front lines in actual combat scenarios. If this is the case, they are usually not too concerned about eating anything, since their mission is to stay alive and fight the enemy! However, it's true that they need to eat as well. In 2008 we started shipping over a brand new ration to Warfighters in these front line combat environments - it's called the First Strike Ration - this ration is one bag that has ALL of your food for the entire day, and the food inside is mostly snack type items (like tortillas, pop tarts, pocket sandwhiches, crackers, trail mix, energy bars, etc.). We designed the food so that all a Warfighter has to do is open the package and start eating. This helps them save time and energy that they can put towards the actual mission at hand.
This is in answer to a couple related questions some of you asked:
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to spotting an MRE or having it stolen by the enemy, there isn't that much we are concerned about as far as them actually stealing the food to consume it. If they happen to find leftover MRE components in the field and they want to eat them, then that wouldn't hurt us in any way. However, what we do want is to make sure that our food and our Warifghters stay safe. That means keeping the packaging in a muted color (like the current brown) so as not to give away Warfighters' locations. Also, we have heard of incidences where the enemy has tried to contaminate the food source of our Warfighters, which obviously is a type of attack. This is certainly something our troops have to be aware of and careful of.
Michael,
ReplyDeleteIn some cases, some MRE items are what we call "overwrapped". This means that we will keep an item in it's original packaging but then put the brown packaging over it to ensure that the barrier properities that keep it safe are still there. An example of this is the pop tarts. They are in brown packages, but then when you open the brown package there is the foil layer that you are used to seeing that has "Kellogg's" written all over it.
Other than that, all other MRE and First Strike Ration components are packaged in the same way.
Hi Alex and Jaden,
ReplyDeleteWhat keeps the MRE items fresh is actually mostly the packaging! As explained in a previous post, the different layers of packaging work together to keep out any type of matter (any gas, liquid, or solid state matter) that coudl possibly contaminate what's already sealed and safe inside. For some items, we also include inside the packaging what we call an "oxygen scavenger" this is just a little square pillow, about 1 inch by 1 inch that basically absorbes into it any oxygen that is in the packaging or being released from teh food item itself. This keeps things like bread from going hard and stale!
And actually, we don't know for sure when certain items go bad. The reason for this is that our mission to make sure they stay "good" for 3 years. After that, we don't actually need to be concerned how long each item lasts until it goes bad. However, I do know that cheese spread and peanut butter are some of the first items that usually show weird color and texture changes after the 3 year shelf life.
Hi Kayla,
ReplyDeleteYour girl scout cookies were probably shipped similar to the way way ship boxes of MREs - on a pallet. You might've seen pallets before if you've ever watched a large truck load or off-load items into a store before, like a grocery store or electronics store. The pallets are about 4 feet by 4 feet (just about 6 inches tall) and many boxes and havey items can be piled on top of them. Then, the pallets are moved around by forklifts and placed on ships or aircraft for shipping overseas. Your girl scout cookies would've have been repackaged in any way because this would actually expose the cookies to more contamination than if they were just left if their original packaging. Plus, I'm sure your cookies dont need the type of packaging our MREs do sine they dont need to last 3 years - I'm sure that were eaten up as soon as they got over there! :)
Hi Kate,
ReplyDeleteIt is each Warfighter's reponsibility to read the nutrition labels and ingredients list to determine if they are able to eat an item if they know they have a food allergy. However, if they do have a reaction, there are always medics on-site or around that will be able to address the problem, whether they need an epi-pen or something else. Our Warfighters are always well taken care of when it comes to medical access.
Hi Kate,
ReplyDeleteWe do taste/field testing with MANY different people and groups. With Soldiers and Marines, we usually field test with anywhere from 200-500 per year. Here at Natick, we do over a THOUSAND taste test panels per year, and at each of those tests there's about 10-15 trained panelists. SO clearly there are a LOT of people involved!
As for types of MRES and variety: We have 24 different MRE menus, which means 24 different bags that each have a different main dish. Then there are side dishes, snacks, and desserts that all all help add to the nutritional balance. All of the items in one bag add up to about 1300 calories. But on each individual item, there is a nutritional label just like you're used to seeing on yoru food at home. This tells the Warfighters how many calories are in each item, as well as amount of fat, protein, and carbohydrates. And so you know, sugars are considered carbohydrate, so yes, the Soldier will know how much sugar they're consuing. We definitely don't want to put too much sugar into an MRE, but we do need to make the rations carbohydrate dense, so we structure all menus so that each one has a balance of the following: 13% protein, 34% fat, and 52% carbohydrate.
Kayla,
ReplyDeleteA great deal of research went into developing/selecting the words on the LAM scale, so bear with me and my explanation : ).
We started with 37 satisfaction/dissatisfaction terms that had been used by many researchers from related consumer studies in the past. Then, 50 volunteers were given a booklet with the 37 satisfaction/dissatisfaction terms. Each booklet was randomized, so each participant was presented with a different order of the 37 terms. They were then asked to participate in a process called 'modulus-free magnitude estimation'. This means that each participant rated all 37 terms with a numeric value to represent how strongly they felt that term expressed a degree of satisfaction or dissatisfaction, in relation to the other 36 terms. That is the 'magnitude estimation' piece. 'Modulus-free' means that each participant was free to use any number value in any range to express their evaluation of each term.
Since each volunteer used a different number range, the first step in analyzing this data set was to mathematically translate everyone's different values into one universal relationship using 'geometric means'. We equated each person's max and min ratings to +100 and -100. The remaining 'in-between' values were reassigned with a new value between +100 and -100, but with the same numeric 'relationship' and 'distance' between terms that the participants gave originally. It's similar to the relationship in a fraction. One person could use 314/628 to describe an item, and another could use 1204/2408, but we can reduce both of those to 1/2. The numbers are different, but the relationship is the same.
After this step, we averaged everyone's ratings together to get one master scale with a value for all 37 terms in order of highest satisfaction to highest dissatisfaction.
In statistics, there is something called a 'standard deviation' that comes with an 'average/mean'. A 'standard deviation' expresses how variable your average is. For example, you could get the age of everyone in a hospital and average it to get, say, 45 years of age. That doesn't mean everyone is 45, or even CLOSE to 45. In reality you have a range of 1 year olds to 90 year olds. This means that your standard deviation is very high. In essence, you can't really 'trust' the average of 45 to accurately represent everyone's age. However, if you averaged everyone's age in your grade, you would get a very low standard deviation, because everyone is within 2 years of age of everyone else. So if your average was 15, you could 'trust' that number to mean everyone is pretty much 15, with some 14 year olds and some 16 year olds, but that there are no 9 year old students or 30 year old students in your class.
SO, we picked all of the words that had the lowest standard deviation all along the range of the scale, so the total number of 37 terms was reduced to 11 optimal terms.
Finally, the physical distance between the words on the scale was determined by their value between +100 and -100. Several more studies were done to support that this scale was equivalant to other scales through comparison tests.
Hi Monica,
ReplyDeleteYou are asking a very "psychologically" based question! There are many factors at play when it comes to making sure Warfighters feel confident in eating MREs when they know they might be 1,2, or 3 years old. One thing that helps is using commercial packaging when we can, because seeing bright colors from companies they know can help a lot. Another thing is simply word of mouth - one guy might be leary of eating the pasta, but if another guy tells him, "hey it's really good, try it" then he'll be more likely to feel confident eating it. Another thing that matters is simply getting the word out there and eduating our military (which is what my office does!) that we have their absolute best interestes in mind when we do our research and development, and we dont even want, nor would we ever, give them something to eat that wasn't safe and wasn't at least somewhat or well liked by the Warfighters when we did our field testing.
And probably the biggest thing that "helps" Soldiers get over the "gross" factor is simply that they get hungry - and when they are hungry and nothing else is available, they will eat MREs, because human instinct to eat pretty much takes over!
As far as fresh food goes - you are absolutely right that there is nothing we can put in a package that can replace fresh fruits and veggies and other perishable items. We do the best we can to make the meal nutritionally balanced, and for example, we recently added in items that have added fiber and added vitamins and things like that. The way the Military systems works is that ideally, Warfighers will only have to eat MRES three times a day for say maybe up to a month. After that time passes, the goal is to get them eating group rations. Our group rations are a mix of packaged items, refrigerated items, and even some frozen items (steaks and cheesecake!mmmmm :)). The group rations can also be eaten with supplements, from which the Warfighter hopefully gets what he or she needs as far as fresh fruits and vegetables are concerned, milk, bread, etc.
Alex,
ReplyDeleteWhen you sat down in the booth, there was a small box on the screen that asked you to click 'accept' or 'enter' to begin your test. When you start the test, the computer program accesses a predetermined order for your samples. Your order of samples is then displayed on a screen inside the lab (the other side of the booth) and the technicians present them to you one by one. The way it determines this depends on how the researcher designed that particular study. Ultimately, you want every person to taste the foods in a different order to avoid something called an 'order effect'.
Let's say you wanted to test out a stale cracker and a cup of chocolate pudding. You would expect the cup of pudding to do better regardless of the order it was presented. But if everyone was given the pudding first and THEN the cracker, the raters would compare the two products, and that comparison would result in an even LOWER rating for the cracker. Vice versa, if everyone was given the stale cracker and THEN the pudding, you may be increasing how much higher the pudding is rated because it is being compared to a really bad cracker. In order to cancel out any order effects, you present the samples in a different order to all of your panelists, so any order effects would cancel one another out when you average them together.
Zack, how many people liked the wheat snack bread and the apple sauce? Because i know i liked them!
ReplyDeleteDear Ms. D'Allesandro,
ReplyDeleteThank you for explaining the shipping process re: the Girl Scout Cookies. I'm sure that they bring a smile to many faces upon their arrival because they are a reminder of home.
You mentioned that the MREs are packaged in a way that they can last up to 3 years before being eaten. How do you keep track of the expiration dates? Are the MREs barcoded in a way that tells you when they were packaged? Also, do the soldiers recycle the packages or leave them behind once they are consumed? I am wondering this because of the possibility of leaving a "paper" trail for others - which could be dangerous.
hey zach do help design the packaging for the mre's and is the natick labs going to design other mre's in the future(not that there is anything wrong with the ones now just sayin) :)
ReplyDeleteThis question is for anyone.....What do you think is the most interseting thing about your job? Also, what first gave you the idea to work in the Natick Labs?
ReplyDeleteDonna Bulger,
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if some of the engineers who build the weapons, and other gear find it hard, at the first try, to build them?And how long does it take to build one weapon.
To all of you who asked great questions about science and engineering careers......
ReplyDeleteOur professionals work on many different kinds of programs. Many of you asked how long it takes to finish a project - the answer is it all depends. Our projects are managed according to cost, schedule and performance. The schedule, or how much time it will take, is predicted up front and engineers are responsible to make progress and meet deadlines. Large design projects can take many years where other quick fix projects can take just a matter of months.
Our STEM staff can be a very creative bunch! They love a challenge and work together to find the best solutions. I think most would tell you that it is hard work but very rewarding - we are constantly learning new things and that is always exciting.
You are all lucky to have had the opportunity to come for a field trip. We do bring groups in often but it is hard to keep up with all the requests - unfortunately some times we have to turn a group away :-(
We are so happy that you all enjoyed the trip, thanks for the kind words about our Center. We look forward to hosting Oak Hill again in the future!
Study hard and you never know one day you may have a career here or at another miitary science and technology center!
Thanks, Zack.
ReplyDeleteTo Ms. D'allesandro,
I don't know if you already explained this on the trip, or someone else asked this, but how long is it before an MRE goes bad?
Oh whoops, you already answered that. Sorry!
ReplyDeleteDear Donna Bulger,
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed taking a closer look at the housing structures during our tour. I was wondering how long they take to assemble and disassemble. It was amazing to see how roomy they were on the inside because they didn't look so big on the outside. Whoever designed them did a great job:) Also, is the lighting provided by both solar power and a generator?
to Zack
ReplyDeletei was wondering how you simulate all the food being 1 year old or in 120 degree weather.
To Zack,
ReplyDeleteI was wondering how they simulate the effects on the food in different weather conditions, temperature, or periods of time.
Thanks,
Dear Donna Bulger: When the soldiers go to the labs to they go through the same tour we went through?
ReplyDeleteIn the MRE's do you put candy or sweets in the MRE's?
ReplyDeleteZach and Katelyn,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for responding to my questions!!
KATELYN: thank you for answering my question. know i understand a lot about food. But it really is to mad that they can't have the fresh food they we have. But I still have another question do the soldiers usually out grow there grossnous or are they not grossed out at all? Also when the soldiers eat there food does the food get tossed in the middle of the table and the soldiers fight for the best foods. Or is the food passed out and you have to eat it wether you like it or not!?
ReplyDeleteTo Ms. D'allesandro: Have there ever been any major complaints about the MRE's? If so, what were they?
ReplyDeleteTo Zack: How many people on average test the foods? Do different age groups have different numbers? If so, is it because of the age of the soldiers?
ReplyDeleteTo Ms. D'allesandro: how do the soldiers know how long the MREs have lasted? Have the MREs ever expired? Could MREs ever expire?
Thanks!
this may have been published before because I don't think I hit post comment. If so,sorry!
ReplyDeleteTo Zack: How many people test one food item? Do different age groups have different numbers? If so, is it because of the age of the soldiers?
To Ms. D'allesandro: Could MREs ever expire in the future?
Donna Bulger: What other projects do you do at the Natick Labs?
ReplyDeleteKatelyn, Thank you for answering my question.
Katelyn, Have you ever had a case where a solider got a kind of bug or sickness from an MRE or a first strike ration? Also, how cold could the meals for the cold weather get to without freezing?
ReplyDeleteZack: thanks for answering my questions... i think i understand your explanations.
ReplyDeleteMs. D'allesandro:
ReplyDeleteWhen the soilders are opening a MRE, is it sometimes hard for them to open them because of all of the packing? What do they do if that happens?
Ms. Rourke:
If the enemy finds hurts the soilders wearing those special glasses, can they take the information, and find things out?
Thanks so much for responding Zach! If I think of anymore questions I will send them to you.
ReplyDeleteHi Katelyn D'Alessandro,
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you and the other people you work with made up your own food to put in the MREs. If so, what is in it and what is it called?
Dear Ms. Rourke,
ReplyDeleteDuring our visit to the Natick Labs, you mentioned that you were a psychologist. I was wondering if you provide counseling and/or support services for the men and women who serve. In addition, do you work with military families, or just the actual soldiers? I think both are important.
Ms.D'allesandro: How do the MREs last so long? Woudn't they contain alot of preservatives?
ReplyDeleteMs.Rourke: shouldn't the eyescanner be improved because I remember at some point you said that it scannes darker eyes more easily than lighter colered eyes.
ReplyDeleteSurajreet,
ReplyDeleteThe wheat snack bread averages ratings around 'like slightly' and the applesauce averages around 'like moderately' for consumer panelists, like yourself.
John Whalen,
ReplyDeleteI don't design the different packages for the MRE's. That process is handled by the Combat Feeding Directorate (CFD). They are located right across the street from our Sensory Lab. However, I do test the effects that different packaging has on the foods.
In a recent focus group with about 20 Soldiers, we investigated how much it 'matters' to the Soldiers to recieve various candies in their original packages verses in the MRE brown bags. And, yes, the MRE's do come with candy (Skittles, MnM's, Starbursts).
The Soldiers didn't care HOW the candy got to them (in the original package or in an MRE package), but simply, THAT it got to them. Some mentioned that after a long tour of duty overseas, recieving a 'skittles' or 'starburst' package may be a nice reminder of home, but again, all they really care about is that in the end, they get the candy.
Monica Cipriano,
ReplyDeleteTravelling to run field studies on the Soldiers is my favorite part about my job. It is very rewarding to see the appreciation from the Soldiers for implementing processes to improve their gear and food (they tend to call food 'chow', by the way).
A Soldier's daily duty revolves around giving and receiving orders. So when a group of civilians shows up at their training site in the middle of the desert, or in the middle of the woods, to ask them about their opinion, to give them an opportunity to express themselves, it can be a nice change of pace for them.
Leo,
ReplyDeleteTime and temperature go hand in hand when it comes to chemical reactions. Temperature is simply a measure of the speed at which molecules bounce off of each other in a given period of time. When it's 95 degrees outside (Fahrenheit) the molecules in the air are colliding with everything (like you and your classmates) relatively quickly, and that sensation is detected by your skin as 'heat'. When it's 75 outside, the molecules are moving at a rate that heats your skin to a 'comfortable' level. However, in the winter, the molecules are moving so slowly that they don't generate enough heat to keep you warm, and that sensation is detected by your skin as 'cold'.
Now back to your question. Everything organic breaks down over time, like food. You keep your milk in the refrigerator because it slows down the rate at which it degrades, breaks down, and ultimately spoils. You wouldn't want to drink milk that was left out for two days, but you have no problem drinking milk that's been in the fridge for 5 days. So if you want to accelerate how quickly foods break down, you store them at higher temperatures, rather than cooler temperatures. If you store a food item at 120 degrees for 6 weeks, you will have simulated food that has been stored at room temperature for 3 years. Like I said earlier, time and temperature go hand in hand. So if you decrease the temperature, you have to increase the time. If you stored a food item at 100 degrees it would take 6 months, rather than 6 weeks, to simulate 3 year old food held at room temperature.
Cam,
ReplyDeleteSee my response to John Whalen for some more details on MRE candies. But to answer your question, yes, the MRE's do come with candy, like Skittles, Reese's Pieces, Starbursts and the like. In fact, a common response we get from Soldiers is that they want more candy in the MRE. Soldiers have sweet-tooths too : )
Charissa,
ReplyDeleteFor the technical panelists (trained sensory experts) we get around 12 panelists usually, but the amount of detail they give results in a very rich data set.
Consumer Panelists average around 40 people.
'Different age groups' touches upon a very important feature of a data set called 'demographics'. Demographics are the details on WHO your panelists are. What part of the world they come from, their gender, their age. For Soldiers a common demographical question is 'years in service' and 'time on tour'.
The developers and engineers who make the products that we test want to know how experienced the Soldiers are that tested their gear/food item. Every Soldier's data matters, but you want to get a good spread of ages and years in service in your data sets in order to more accurately represent 'the greater Army'.
A brand new Soldier may say a certain MRE is gross, because they're comparing it to Mom's home cooking, or restaurant quality meals. An experienced Soldier who has been eating MRE's for years may think that the particular MRE is pretty good, because he/she knows what it's like to be extremely hungry in the middle of the desert or jungle for a long period of time.
Age isn't the only factor that effects their ratings. The area that a Soldier grew up before joining the Army effects their ratings as well. Soldiers from the southwest tend to like spicy foods. Soldier's from New England tend to like the seafood items. Soldiers from the south tend to like the grits more than soldiers from the Northwest. But the greater Army is made up of ALL of these Soldiers with these varying demographics, so there is a need to provide enough diversity in the MRE menus to keep everyone happy.
To Jennifer: Are you making anymore new things and have you ever thought that the mini screens on the glasses might break if it hits water or the glasses fall on the floor?
ReplyDeleteTo Zack: Do you use the smart board often and do you enjoy using it? Also do you have custom smart boards then the ones you buy in stores?
ReplyDeleteTo Jennifer Rourke: How often are peoples eyes to light to track them? Shouldn't it be easyer to track lighter eyes? (You tryed with my eyes and it didnt work)
ReplyDeletethank you everybody for answering my questions and having us there at the field trip!! it was so much fun. but, i have one more question--how do you come up with the describing words, like "like greatly, or like slightly"?
ReplyDeleteRaquel Ashkenazi,
ReplyDeleteDepending on the studies being run, the smart board will get lots of use. That conference room is used by many teams, so it gets used often.
The model we have is standard, no modifications have been made to it.
--
Zach
Kate,
ReplyDeleteThat's a great question. You can find my explanation in response to Kayla from May 20, 2010 11:06 AM if you scroll up.
--
Zach